What is a maximum?

[davis_greatest]

Many professional tournaments award a player a financial bonus for making a "maximum break", but does anyone know if there are clear rules to define what is a maximum, where a free ball comes into play?

E.g.

(a) 14 reds left. Player has a free ball. Takes it, pots a black, and then the remaining 14 reds with blacks, and the colours. Finishes on 147. Is that a maximum? (I.e. does he get the prize for the maximum?)

(b) 15 reds left. Player has a free ball. Takes it and makes a 155 (16 “reds” with blacks). This (surely) should count as a maximum (unless the rules are written to say a player must make a "147 maximum" and the sponsors try to squirm out of paying - I'm sure that would not go down well though!).

(C) 15 reds left. Player has a free ball. Takes it with a pink. Then in the same visit pots all 15 remaining reds with blacks, and the colours. Finishes on 154. Does this count for the purpose of getting the prize for a maximum? (The player effectively potted red-pink followed by a 147, but all in one visit.)

(d) 15 reds left. Player has a free ball. He pots the free ball and a red also goes in on the same shot (2 points scored). He then pots black and remaining 14 reds with blacks, then the colours. Finishes on 148. Is that a maximum?


PS I'm not too sure whether this is the correct forum for this thread - hopefully it's close enough!

[davis_greatest]

PPS This is not a quiz. I'm wondering what the answers are!

PPPS If you don't know, please feel free to give your opinion - but please state whether it is your opinion or whether you know for sure (and if so, how).

PPPPS The reason, of course, that I am asking, is that I am thinking of entering the World Championships next year, and don't want to waste my time entertaining the crowd with loads of 155, 154, and 148 breaks, only to find out that I am not rewarded for my efforts.

[WALTER-ITALY]

In my opinion only the case (b) is a maximum.But i think is the moment to change denomination into "perfect break":)

[WALTER-ITALY]

and for me perfect break is when you pot all the red into the table(15 or 16)whit blacks and the complete colours clearance

[elvaago]

I am fairly sure only a 147 with 15 reds and 15 blacks is a Maximum Break.

Anything higher or lower or made differently is not, though I'd argue the 155 break /should/ be considered an official maximum as well.

[The Statman]

A maximum is defined as a 147 (without a freeball) or a 155 (with a free ball).

Any other combination would NOT count as a maximum, although it could still get the high break prize ahead of a maximum (or a free-ball 147 share the high break prize with a regular 147, but not the maximum bonus).

If a player got a free ball at the start of a frame, but did not go further than "red"-colour, he could still make a regular 147 with the remaining 15 reds at a further visit, and this WOULD count (or, indeed, with another free ball a 155).

[davis_greatest]

A maximum is defined as a 147 (without a freeball) or a 155 (with a free ball).

Any other combination would NOT count as a maximum, although it could still get the high break prize ahead of a maximum (or a free-ball 147 share the high break prize with a regular 147, but not the maximum bonus).

If a player got a free ball at the start of a frame, but did not go further than "red"-colour, he could still make a regular 147 with the remaining 15 reds at a further visit, and this WOULD count (or, indeed, with another free ball a 155).

That is what I would have expected. And, presumably, if with 15 reds left, a player has the option of a free ball but declines it, and makes a regular 147 maximum, that still counts (?).

[davis_greatest]

OK, The Statman, what about

(e) 15 reds left, player has a free ball. He nominates yellow, strikes yellow and red simultaneously - red (only) enters the pocket. He pots black and then the remaining 14 reds with blacks, colours, to finish on 147.

Are you saying that that would not be a maximum?

[austrian_girl]

This is an opinion:

I think scenario C should count as a maximum break. Strictly speaking, it "included" a regular maximum break. But I guess there are arguments for all of your scenarios to count as maximums.

It's a really interesting question. Would be nice to know anything definite from the official side. :rolleyes:

[lagermike]

As always, another thought provoking and profound post by davis greatest (still wearing those rose coloured glasses I see!)
My understanding of what is considered a maximum break is akin to that of the statman's but you have caught me with my pants down with regard to the freeball scenario you have just described - I would say that would surely count as a maximum, but I would be guessing.;) :rolleyes:

[missneworleans]

Maximum is a possible maximum in situation, so maximums are 147 and 155, other's not

[The Statman]

OK, The Statman, what about

(e) 15 reds left, player has a free ball. He nominates yellow, strikes yellow and red simultaneously - red (only) enters the pocket. He pots black and then the remaining 14 reds with blacks, colours, to finish on 147.

Are you saying that that would not be a maximum?I think it would NOT count, as the player nominated, and used, a sixteenth red. Whether he hit both simultaneously or hit the yellow distinctly first makes no difference – either would have been a foul if he had not had a free ball.

A maximum has to satisfy both of the following conditions:
1 No red was gone when he came to the table, and
2 The player scored as many points as was possible, given the scenario at which he arrived at the table.

If both conditions are met, it counts; if only one (or neither) is met, then it does not count.

[davis_greatest]

Thank you, The Statman.


...A maximum has to satisfy both of the following conditions:
1 No red was gone when he came to the table, and
2 The player scored as many points as was possible, given the scenario at which he arrived at the table....

Then what about the scenario that I put in a post above, which I shall now call (f):

(f) With 15 reds left, a player has the option of a free ball but declines it, and makes a regular 147 (15 reds+blacks, and the colours).

The 147 is now not "as many points as was possible" (since 155 would have been possible had the free ball option been taken) - but surely this is a maximum?

[DawRef]

I think it should be up to the tournament director or sponsor as to what would constitute a 'maximum' as regards a prize for a 'maximum break'. In all the professional tournaments a maximum is considered 147.
If a player scores more, because of free ball scenario described below, then that player would get the highest break prize.
However, I think in all circles, a 'maximum' has always been understood to be 15 reds, 15 blacks and all the colours.

[davis_greatest]

I was on for a maximum not that long ago, and then missed with the very last stroke - finished on 140! :mad:

On 120 was looking perfect, then the third dart bounced off the ceiling and finished in the 20.

[PaulTheSoave]

Show it then! Pants down, you ole mucka!

In this case the 147 is the maximum, whether you get it with 15 reds and blacks or Davis Greatest theoretical scenario (which no one one will ever produce). Alternatively the 155





As always, another thought provoking and profound post by davis greatest (still wearing those rose coloured glasses I see!)
My understanding of what is considered a maximum break is akin to that of the statman's but you have caught me with my pants down with regard to the freeball scenario you have just described - I would say that would surely count as a maximum, but I would be guessing.;) :rolleyes:

[DawRef]

Actually, it was nearly done. I think it was Kirk Stevens who potted a free ball, colour, 15 reds with colours and then the colours, but I remember the break being under 147.
I'm sure someone has a better memory and will correct me on the player.:cool:

[missneworleans]

Show it then! Pants down, you ole mucka!

In this case the 147 is the maximum, whether you get it with 15 reds and blacks or Davis Greatest theoretical scenario (which no one one will ever produce). Alternatively the 155
As I said! BTW, I think nobody has still had 155?:confused:

[davis_greatest]

As I said! BTW, I think nobody has still had 155?:confused:

Allegedly Jamie Cope made a 155 in a practice frame, I understand.

[missneworleans]

Allegedly Jamie Cope made a 155 in a practice frame, I understand.
I thought it was 151???:confused:

[davis_greatest]

I thought it was 151???:confused:

This thread mentions the 155 and the previous 151:

http://www.thesnookerforum.com/snooker-questions-9/maximum-break-744.html

[rambon]

OK, The Statman, what about

(e) 15 reds left, player has a free ball. He nominates yellow, strikes yellow and red simultaneously - red (only) enters the pocket. He pots black and then the remaining 14 reds with blacks, colours, to finish on 147.

Are you saying that that would not be a maximum?

To further muddy the waters:

(f) Player is awarded a free ball but opts not to take it, completes a 147. Is this a "maximum" as with the free ball the maximum became 155. I suspect the answer is yes as the maximum only becomes 155 when the player takes up the option of a free ball, but thought i'd confuse you some more anyway...

[The Statman]

...A maximum has to satisfy both of the following conditions:
1 No red was gone when he came to the table, and
2 The player scored as many points as was possible, given the scenario at which he arrived at the table....Thank you, The Statman.



Then what about the scenario that I put in a post above, which I shall now call (f):

(f) With 15 reds left, a player has the option of a free ball but declines it, and makes a regular 147 (15 reds+blacks, and the colours).

The 147 is now not "as many points as was possible" (since 155 would have been possible had the free ball option been taken) - but surely this is a maximum?Yes you are right. I realised that late last night. That would be the one exception to the two criteria, in my opinion. If he was awarded a free ball but declined it, and went on to make a 'regular' 147, that would count.

[rambon]

Yes you are right. I realised that late last night. That would be the one exception to the two criteria, in my opinion. If he was awarded a free ball but declined it, and went on to make a 'regular' 147, that would count.

For the reason stated in my message, in that the maximum on the table is 147 until the player accepts the free ball at which point it becomes 155

[Monique]

Yes you are right. I realised that late last night. That would be the one exception to the two criteria, in my opinion. If he was awarded a free ball but declined it, and went on to make a 'regular' 147, that would count.
Hi The Statsman,

Would you please explain why you would make this execption?

Ignorant, but curious...

[davis_greatest]

To further muddy the waters:

(f) Player is awarded a free ball but opts not to take it, completes a 147. Is this a "maximum" as with the free ball the maximum became 155. I suspect the answer is yes as the maximum only becomes 155 when the player takes up the option of a free ball, but thought i'd confuse you some more anyway...

Yes, that's already my "(f)" (see post 13)! :)

[Q Ball]

I think the maximum is "whatever is the highest achievable score is", hence it being a 155. Maybe they should offer a HUGE PRIZE should it be achieved televised, as they will be talking about it for years

Q

[Uncursed]

and don't want to waste my time entertaining the crowd with loads of 155, 154, and 148 breaks, only to find out that I am not rewarded for my efforts.


:D

Good luck to you with that!

[The Statman]

I think it would NOT count, as the player nominated, and used, a sixteenth red. Whether he hit both simultaneously or hit the yellow distinctly first makes no difference – either would have been a foul if he had not had a free ball.

A maximum has to satisfy both of the following conditions:
1 No red was gone when he came to the table, and
2 The player scored as many points as was possible, given the scenario at which he arrived at the table.

If both conditions are met, it counts; if only one (or neither) is met, then it does not count.To avoid this clumsy wording, I will tweak this to read:

A maximum has to satisfy both of the following conditions:
1 No red was gone when he came to the table, and
2 The player potted a black after each red (or "red") and completes the colours clearance.


The further scenario, which I shall call (g), is that a player nominates the initial free ball, and pots both that and a real red. This would NOT be a maximum, in the same way as two reds in one shot without a free ball would not count. (And the wording of my revised conditions covers that, as a black will not have been taken after each red or "red".

[wildJONESEYE]

a maximum break is the maximum amount of points available to the player when the frames starts......and thats 147...

if by a mishap a freeball is awarded the maximum is increased to a 155....

if as you say a player strikes the yellow as a freeball and both yellow and the red drops and you go on to make a 148 that is not a maximum thats the equivalant to a 140 if a player knocks in 2 reds at the start of the break but can only take 1 Black............

[frameandfortunereturns]

You could argue that a 155 is possible in any given frame so therefore that is the 'only' maximum break. A conventional 147 is not a maximum. If a player decided to go for a red at the start of a frame without waiting for the possibility of getting a free ball first then he has decided to forfeit the chance of making a maximum.

I hope that clears it all up.

Anyway I never understand why 15 reds and 15 blacks and the colours are what constitute a maximum, surely 15 reds and 15 yellows is far more difficult? :confused:

[The Statman]

Anyway I never understand why 15 reds and 15 blacks and the colours are what constitute a maximum, surely 15 reds and 15 yellows is far more difficult? :confused:Yes, it's much more difficult (unless the yellow spot is occupied before a red is potted and it ends up on the black spot!), but I guess the reason the 15-red-blacks is called a maximum – well, the clue is in the word maximum! 147>72.

[frameandfortunereturns]

Statman,

Has there ever been a break that was 15 reds and 15 of one colour that wasn't black(ie 15 reds and 15 blues)?

[The Statman]

Statman,

Has there ever been a break that was 15 reds and 15 of one colour that wasn't black(ie 15 reds and 15 blues)?I remember Darren Morgan almost managing it with the blue once – think maybe he missed the fifteenth blue or the yellow. It was yeeeeeeeears ago, of course, and I have no recollection where or when!

[wildJONESEYE]

You could argue that a 155 is possible in any given frame so therefore that is the 'only' maximum break. A conventional 147 is not a maximum. If a player decided to go for a red at the start of a frame without waiting for the possibility of getting a free ball first then he has decided to forfeit the chance of making a maximum.

I hope that clears it all up.

Anyway I never understand why 15 reds and 15 blacks and the colours are what constitute a maximum, surely 15 reds and 15 yellows is far more difficult? :confused:

that is total rubish..............

Maximum = Maximum amout of points ...potting the yellow does not amount to a maximum amount does it................

and saying if a player does not wait for a freeball situation he is forfeiting the chance to make a maximum what utter stupidaty.....

come on mate try not to talk stupid please............

[frameandfortunereturns]

It isn't total rubbish. The maximum break you can get is 155, this is a fact, admittedly it is very difficult because you have to get a free ball first but it remains a fact that 155 is the maximum break.

Regarding my point about the yellow I would suggest if snooker were to be invented again then I would say a baulk colour should be worth the most points as it is harder to keep potting a baulk colour from a red, in general terms(that is to say when most of the reds are around the pink and black spot areas and the baulk colour spots are unoccupied). Surely the harder something is the more it should be rewarded?

How many maximums would you expect to see a decade if it was the green or yellow that were worth 7 points and not the black?

[Semih_Sayginer]

you could just move the spot the black occupies closer to the cushion it is currently nearest to so that when respotted its 5mm off the cushion if you want to make a maximum harder to get......

[missneworleans]

OK, The Statman, what about

(e) 15 reds left, player has a free ball. He nominates yellow, strikes yellow and red simultaneously - red (only) enters the pocket. He pots black and then the remaining 14 reds with blacks, colours, to finish on 147.

Are you saying that that would not be a maximum?
Well if rules count this...

[missneworleans]

I remember Darren Morgan almost managing it with the blue once – think maybe he missed the fifteenth blue or the yellow. It was yeeeeeeeears ago, of course, and I have no recollection where or when!

Well I think I saw it- yes Ronnie O'Sullivan made 15 reds and 15 pinks...I forget were it was.... total break of 132

[Monique]

Miss ... I think Ronnie made 15 reds + pinks in the last 16 in the 2006 UK against Magguire. But missed on the green...:rolleyes:

[davis_greatest]

To avoid this clumsy wording, I will tweak this to read:

A maximum has to satisfy both of the following conditions:
1 No red was gone when he came to the table, and
2 The player potted a black after each red (or "red") and completes the colours clearance.


The further scenario, which I shall call (g), is that a player nominates the initial free ball, and pots both that and a real red. This would NOT be a maximum, in the same way as two reds in one shot without a free ball would not count. (And the wording of my revised conditions covers that, as a black will not have been taken after each red or "red".

So what about the following scenarios, which I think both meet your definition (if we assume that the 2nd condition means "at that visit")?

Scenario (h)

Player A breaks off, fouls and leaves a free ball.

Player B comes to the table, with all 15 reds reamaining, and nominates a free ball as an extra "red", which he pots. He then misses a colour completely; referee calls "Foul and a Miss".

Player A elects to have the balls replaced and make Player B play again. Player B is on a colour for the start of his visit. He nominates and pots yellow (*), followed by 15 reds, each with a black, and then the six colours.

Total break: 149... so is it a maximum?

Scenario (i)

Exactly as scenario (h), but this time Player B nominates and pots black instead of yellow at the point marked (*) above.

Total break: 154. A maximum?

[wildJONESEYE]

no lol you cant pot yellow as a yellow then the balls in sequance..............

you pot the yellow then the yellow again for 3 points then 15 reds 15 blacks for a break of 150.....................no thats not a maximum in my book.................

[davis_greatest]

no lol you cant pot yellow as a yellow then the balls in sequance..............

you pot the yellow then the yellow again for 3 points then 15 reds 15 blacks for a break of 150.....................no thats not a maximum in my book.................

No, in the situation that I described, the first yellow was acting as a colour. As there are still reds on the table, it is followed by a red, not another yellow!

[wildJONESEYE]

you canot start a break with a yellow as a yellow under no surcanstance............

if you are put back then the ball you potted ie the red is back as part of the break because you have been put back in to the position you left the table ie potted red now going for a colour........

i know its unusuall and i cant remember it happening but that is the rules as it stands i think or if thats not the rule it should be the rule..................

[moglet]

I think I see where d_g is going with this, perhaps it may be easier to turn the question round.

However it is achieved, if a player manages the 15 red, 15 black and 6 colour sequence (147) and if at the start of his visit, explained ad nauseam, adds points to his overall score then are we saying that this disqualifies his "147" from being a maximum?

[davis_greatest]

you canot start a break with a yellow as a yellow under no surcanstance............

if you are put back then the ball you potted ie the red is back as part of the break because you have been put back in to the position you left the table ie potted red now going for a colour........

i know its unusuall and i cant remember it happening but that is the rules as it stands i think or if thats not the rule it should be the rule..................

The previous red (or in this case, free ball acting as a red) does not count as part of the break. The break would commence with the yellow (in scenario (h)) or black (in scenario (i)).

The rule for a Foul and a Miss in the particular case that I described is as per section 3 of the rules, rule 14(a)(iii), namely that:

"After a foul and a miss has been called, the next player may request the offender to play again ... in which ... case the ball on shall be the same as it was prior to the last stroke made, namely .... a colour of the striker’s choice, where the ball on was a colour after a Red had been potted."

[davis_greatest]

I think I see where d_g is going with this, perhaps it may be easier to turn the question round.

However it is achieved, if a player manages the 15 red, 15 black and 6 colour sequence (147) and if at the start of his visit, explained ad nauseam, adds points to his overall score then are we saying that this disqualifies his "147" from being a maximum?

That would be as per scenario (c) in the opening post of this thread, and I believe that The Statman's view is that that would not be classed as a maximum (however unfair that may seem!).

[moglet]

Mmmm, I'm lost....the law is proverbially as the ass. I would expect the rules to cover visits of more than 147 and qualify them as maximums. I apologise for the contradiction in terms.

That is, if the normal 147 sequence was part of the break, but then again........

[wildJONESEYE]

The previous red (or in this case, free ball acting as a red) does not count as part of the break. The break would commence with the yellow (in scenario (h)) or black (in scenario (i)).

The rule for a Foul and a Miss in the particular case that I described is as per section 3 of the rules, rule 14(a)(iii), namely that:

"After a foul and a miss has been called, the next player may request the offender to play again ... in which ... case the ball on shall be the same as it was prior to the last stroke made, namely .... a colour of the striker’s choice, where the ball on was a colour after a Red had been potted."

yes but if the oponement puts a player back in after a foul stroke to the point the foul occured everything is going back.....the balls that moved in exactly the same position therefore the standing of the frame should also go back meaning the player had potted a red and now on a colour ie in this case the yellow..................

they cant have a rule to replace the balls if the situation the player is in changes........................

[davis_greatest]

yes but if the oponement puts a player back in after a foul stroke to the point the foul occured everything is going back.....the balls that moved in exactly the same position therefore the standing of the frame should also go back meaning the player had potted a red and now on a colour ie in this case the yellow..................

they cant have a rule to replace the balls if the situation the player is in changes........................

When Player B fouls, his visit terminates and Player A receives penalty points. If Player A chooses to put Player B in, Player B begins a new visit. His break begins on zero - it does not continue from the running score he was on prior to committing the foul.

For example, if I have just potted the blue on a break of 134, and then miscue, missing the pink entirely, and the referee calls foul and a miss, and you put me in again, then if I pot the pink, I will be on a break of 6. I am not on a break of 140, still on for the maximum.

[wildJONESEYE]

i understand what you say ..............but if you replace the balls suerly the whole frame should go in reverse.................

[moglet]

......if The Statman is right and I've no reason to doubt it, it is down to scoring opportunity so unless there is some way of exceeding 155 then that has to be the free-ball maximum as opposed to the regular 147 and ought in between does not qualify.

Therefore case (a) in the opening post should qualify.

[davis_greatest]

......if The Statman is right and I've no reason to doubt it, it is down to scoring opportunity so unless there is some way of exceeding 155 then that has to be the free-ball maximum as opposed to the regular 147 and ought in between does not qualify.

In scenarios (h) and (i), then, when Player B returns to the table to commence his 2nd visit, his maximal scoring opportunity is 154 (black, then 15 x red-black, plus the 6 colours), so that ought to count as a maximum.

[wildJONESEYE]

thats why the rule is wrong about the situation of in theary being able to pot the colour first in a break so the maximum could be anything from 147 to 155 using that theary.....whitch cant be right and a good reason to change that rule.................

[moglet]

I tend to agree, is there not some definitive clarification of such scenarios in the rule book?

Such as what does qualify as a scoring visit.

[wildJONESEYE]

I tend to agree, is there not some definitive clarification of such scenarios in the rule book?

Such as what does qualify as a scoring visit.

its simple for me if you replace the balls you replace the situation and go back with the balls................or forget the miss rule compleatly and not replace the balls.....it seems to me under this scenario its as if they want theire cake and eat it......................

if player B puts player A back in and replace the balls its as they were before the foul SIMPLE.....

the desition is with player B what to do anyway .....put him back or make him take the shot from its position or take the shot on himself......

[moglet]

Yes, but if it is right that the player put back in starts his scoring visit with a colour he would have to choose to take the black (sc.i) to qualify for the highest scoring opportunity of 154? Would this be allowed if his originally nominated colour was not black?

[frameandfortunereturns]

You can talk until the 'cows come home' about different scenarios about simultaneous strikings, free balls and missing the colour, etc. but the fact remains that a 155 is possible in every frame and this is therefore the maximujm and 'only maximum'.

155 IS THE MAXIMUM BREAK.

Definition of maximum: The most possible, the absolute limit. Is this 147? No, it isn't! Ask any snooker playing Jamie! Burnett in match conditions and Cope in practice!

[davis_greatest]

Yes, but if it is right that the player put back in starts his scoring visit with a colour he would have to choose to take the black (sc.i) to qualify for the highest scoring opportunity of 154? Would this be allowed if his originally nominated colour was not black?

Yes, it would be allowed. When Player B returns to the table in scenarios (h) or (i), he may nominate whichever colour he chooses. It does not need to be the same as the colour he nominated on his previous (foul) shot.

[The Statman]

Yes, it would be allowed. When Player B returns to the table in scenarios (h) or (i), he may nominate whichever colour he chooses. It does not need to be the same as the colour he nominated on his previous (foul) shot.Of course, it could be that you are snookered on all colours and on your second attempt on the same colour, you fluke it. But as you say, you can change your mind.You can talk until the 'cows come home' about different scenarios about simultaneous strikings, free balls and missing the colour, etc. but the fact remains that a 155 is possible in every frame and this is therefore the maximujm and 'only maximum'.

155 IS THE MAXIMUM BREAK.

Definition of maximum: The most possible, the absolute limit. Is this 147? No, it isn't! Ask any snooker playing Jamie! Burnett in match conditions and Cope in practice!However, you are reliant on circumstances beyond your control. 147 is the maximum that can be achieved without the aid of another person.

[frameandfortunereturns]

It isn't beyond a player's control. If a player plays every frame as if he wants to make a 155 then there will be many more opportunities for it to happen. A player could play to keep every red on the table until he gets a free ball. You could argue when a 147 is made that it is beyond a player's control also, what if the black is tied up? Take the 147 by O'Sullivan in the UK, Selby missed the initial red; if it had gone in there is possible 147 chance. Even in a frame where a 147 is made without the opponent having a shot at red first if the player hadn't left a red on with the possibility of getting on the black then a 147 cannot happen. It is always beyond a player's control to a certain extent.

[wildJONESEYE]

It isn't beyond a player's control. If a player plays every frame as if he wants to make a 155 then there will be many more opportunities for it to happen. A player could play to keep every red on the table until he gets a free ball. You could argue when a 147 is made that it is beyond a player's control also, what if the black is tied up? Take the 147 by O'Sullivan in the UK, Selby missed the initial red; if it had gone in there is possible 147 chance. Even in a frame where a 147 is made without the opponent having a shot at red first if the player hadn't left a red on with the possibility of getting on the black then a 147 cannot happen. It is always beyond a player's control to a certain extent.

so youre saying 15 reds on the table and for 30 minute both player pushes balls all over the table until someone leaves a free ball is the only way to make a maximum.........jesus christ.....

how would the comantary go on that............

John Virgo and Willie thorne for 30 minutes desgribing what exactly lol

balls rolling across a green table...........ohhhhh thats a good roll sais virgo and Willie saying Ronnie wouldnt have Rolled the ball like that.....that was 2 negative a roll........................christ how exciting waiting for a free ball that would be lol

[janverhaas]

I heard that Willie Thorne would stop a frame if there was no maximum chance so that is cheating if you like in terms of getting your maximum tally up. I think there is far too much made of maximums and as someone said surely it is harder to make a 15 reds, 15 yellow, colours clearance?

It is an interesting subject with regard to the free ball situation and it is fair enough to say that a 155 is a maximum break. You cannot have 2 maximum breaks, so therefore a 147 isn't really a maximum break. I saw a tournament a long time ago where Kirk Stevens missed the penultimate red when on a 107 break, so he could have made a 150. I am sure if you asked a player who has already made a 147 15 red clearance if they would like to make a 148 break as against another 147 then they would take it as it is more unique. 147 maximums have become quite ordinary in that they are being made every other tournament.

[wildJONESEYE]

I heard that Willie Thorne would stop a frame if there was no maximum chance so that is cheating if you like in terms of getting your maximum tally up. I think there is far too much made of maximums and as someone said surely it is harder to make a 15 reds, 15 yellow, colours clearance?

It is an interesting subject with regard to the free ball situation and it is fair enough to say that a 155 is a maximum break. You cannot have 2 maximum breaks, so therefore a 147 isn't really a maximum break. I saw a tournament a long time ago where Kirk Stevens missed the penultimate red when on a 107 break, so he could have made a 150. I am sure if you asked a player who has already made a 147 15 red clearance if they would like to make a 148 break as against another 147 then they would take it as it is more unique. 147 maximums have become quite ordinary in that they are being made every other tournament.

christ dont you start lol

147 is the Maximum break always has been and until someone adds another Red yes thats right a Red it will remain a maximum break.............

yes it is possible to do a 155 but thats an Abnormal Maximum Break and unless every frame a player plays he has a free ball its not possible to make is it......

have i just logged on to doolally site from another universe or what.........christ lol

[davis_greatest]

Thank you for the answers so far.

As a reminder, and to revert to "on topic", the purpose of this thread is to ask (and maybe even answer) the question: what is the precise set of circumstances in which a player would be awarded the financial bonus for what is termed a "maximum break" in a professional snooker tournament?

In particular, do the rules for any particular tournament, or the contract from any particular sponsor, actually define unambiguously what would count for the purpose of being awarded the financial bonus, and what would not count? Or is it just not defined, leaving it open to the discretion of the sponsor or tournament director, should an unforeseen such scenario arise - or perhaps, in the event of a dispute due to the lack of a clear definition of "maximum, later up to the courts?

It is quite possible that any of the scenarios I have described could occur in a real tournament - or a player may be near the start of such a break - and he could ask the referee whether it would qualify for the financial bonus. The referee should be able to answer in all circumstances; and therefore the definition should be made clear and unambiguous.

If, for example, scenario (h) or scenario (i) were to occur, and a player returned to the table "on" a colour, and potted yellow or black, followed by a "regular 147" as part of the same visit, to make a break of 149 or 154, would the sponsor pay the bonus? And if it did not, would the player have a good case to sue?

The purpose of this thread is not to ask what is the highest possible break that can be scored in any particular circumstance; or what is the mathematical definition of "maximum"; or what is the theoretically highest break that may be scored in a frame of snooker. Those questions, while perhaps of some interest in themselves, are all very straightforward to answer, and shed no light on the original question.

:)

[wildJONESEYE]

A Maximum break is A Maximum break wether its 147 or 155 and should be treated as equall regarding a financial reward for achieving them........

however the player or players that actually does a 155 what a thing to go on youre cv having done a 155 but you cant ledgislate for it differently to a 147.................