When did they turn Professional?

[Semih_Sayginer]

has anyone got a list that they could post here with all, or some, of the following information?

(from the last 30 years)

for players who have won a world ranking title and/or been in the top 16 official rankings, could you list?

<b>name
d.o.b.
year turned professional</b>

<u>and the list be alphabetical</u>?

thanks in advance if anyone has any info.

Sem

[The Statman]

* means the activity that season was the "Pro Ticket" qualifying system for the second season later:

<table border=1><tr><td>Player</td><td>Date of Birth</td><td>Frist season</td></tr><tr><td>Nigel Bond</td><td>15 November 1965</td><td>87-88*</td></tr><tr><td>Ali Carter</td><td>25 July 1979</td><td>96-97</td></tr><tr><td>Bob Chaperon</td><td>18 May 1958</td><td>83-84</td></tr><tr><td>Eddie Charlton</td><td>31 October 1929</td><td>67-68</td></tr><tr><td>Martin Clark</td><td>27 October 1968</td><td>85-86</td></tr><tr><td>Dominic Dale</td><td>29 December 1971</td><td>92-93</td></tr><tr><td>Fred Davis</td><td>14 August 1913</td><td>36-37</td></tr><tr><td>Steve Davis</td><td>22 August 1957</td><td>78-79</td></tr><tr><td>Ken Doherty</td><td>17 September 1969</td><td>87-88*</td></tr><tr><td>Graeme Dott</td><td>12 May 1977</td><td>94-95</td></tr><tr><td>Tony Drago</td><td>22 September 1965</td><td>85-86</td></tr><tr><td>John Dunning</td><td>18 April 1927</td><td>71-72</td></tr><tr><td>Peter Ebdon</td><td>27 August 1970</td><td>91-92</td></tr><tr><td>Neal Foulds</td><td>13 July 1963</td><td>83-84</td></tr><tr><td>Peter Francisco</td><td>14 February 1962</td><td>84-85</td></tr><tr><td>Silvino Francisco</td><td>3 May 1946</td><td>78-79</td></tr><tr><td>Marco Fu</td><td>8 January 1978</td><td>97-98</td></tr><tr><td>David Gray</td><td>9 February 1979</td><td>95-96</td></tr><tr><td>Terry Griffiths</td><td>16 October 1947</td><td>78-79</td></tr><tr><td>Mike Hallett</td><td>6 July 1959</td><td>79-80</td></tr><tr><td>Anthony Hamilton</td><td>29 June 1971</td><td>91-92</td></tr><tr><td>Quinten Hann</td><td>4 June 1977</td><td>95-96</td></tr><tr><td>Dave Harold</td><td>9 December 1966</td><td>87-88</td></tr><tr><td>Barry Hawkins</td><td>23 April 1979</td><td>96-97</td></tr><tr><td>Stephen Hendry</td><td>13 January 1969</td><td>85-86</td></tr><tr><td>Alex Higgins</td><td>18 March 1949</td><td>71-72</td></tr><tr><td>John Higgins</td><td>18 May 1975</td><td>92-93</td></tr><tr><td>Paul Hunter</td><td>14 October 1978</td><td>95-96</td></tr><tr><td>Steve James</td><td>2 May 1961</td><td>86-87</td></tr><tr><td>Joe Johnson</td><td>29 July 1952</td><td>79-80</td></tr><tr><td>Tony Jones</td><td>15 April 1960</td><td>83-84</td></tr><tr><td>Ding Junhui</td><td>1 April 1987</td><td>01-02</td></tr><tr><td>Mark King</td><td>28 March 1974</td><td>91-92</td></tr><tr><td>Tony Knowles</td><td>13 June 1955</td><td>78-79</td></tr><tr><td>Stephen Lee</td><td>12 October 1974</td><td>92-93</td></tr><tr><td>Stephen Maguire</td><td>13 March 1981</td><td>97-98</td></tr><tr><td>Perrie Mans</td><td>14 October 1940</td><td>70-71</td></tr><tr><td>Ian McCulloch</td><td>28 July 1971</td><td>92-93</td></tr><tr><td>Alan McManus</td><td>21 January 1971</td><td>88-89*</td></tr><tr><td>Jim Meadowcroft</td><td>15 December 1946</td><td>72-73</td></tr><tr><td>Tony Meo</td><td>4 October 1959</td><td>78-79</td></tr><tr><td>Graham Miles</td><td>11 May 1941</td><td>71-72</td></tr><tr><td>Darren Morgan</td><td>3 May 1966</td><td>85-86*</td></tr><tr><td>Doug Mountjoy</td><td>8 June 1942</td><td>76-77</td></tr><tr><td>Shaun Murphy</td><td>10 August 1982</td><td>97-98</td></tr><tr><td>Fergal O'Brien</td><td>8 March 1972</td><td>91-92</td></tr><tr><td>Ronnie O'Sullivan</td><td>5 December 1975</td><td>92-93</td></tr><tr><td>Gary Owen</td><td></td><td>68-69</td></tr><tr><td>John Parrott</td><td>11 May 1964</td><td>83-84</td></tr><tr><td>Joe Perry</td><td>13 August 1975</td><td>92-93</td></tr><tr><td>John Pulman</td><td>12 December 1923</td><td>46-47</td></tr><tr><td>Ray Reardon</td><td>8 October 1932</td><td>68-69</td></tr><tr><td>Dean Reynolds</td><td>11 January 1963</td><td>81-82</td></tr><tr><td>Neil Robertson</td><td>11 February 1982</td><td>97-98</td></tr><tr><td>Alain Robidoux</td><td>25 July 1960</td><td>87-88</td></tr><tr><td>David Roe</td><td>11 September 1965</td><td>86-87</td></tr><tr><td>Chris Small</td><td>26 September 1973</td><td>91-92</td></tr><tr><td>John Spencer</td><td>18 September 1935</td><td>68-69</td></tr><tr><td>Kirk Stevens</td><td>17 August 1958</td><td>78-79</td></tr><tr><td>Matthew Stevens</td><td>11 September 1977</td><td>94-95</td></tr><tr><td>Joe Swail</td><td>29 August 1969</td><td>88-89*</td></tr><tr><td>David Taylor</td><td>29 July 1943</td><td>69-70</td></tr><tr><td>Dennis Taylor</td><td>19 January 1949</td><td>72-73</td></tr><tr><td>Cliff Thorburn</td><td>16 January 1948</td><td>72-73</td></tr><tr><td>Willie Thorne</td><td>4 March 1954</td><td>74-75</td></tr><tr><td>John Virgo</td><td>3 April 1946</td><td>72-73</td></tr><tr><td>James Wattana</td><td>17 January 1970</td><td>87-88*</td></tr><tr><td>Bill Werbeniuk</td><td>14 January 1947</td><td>73-74</td></tr><tr><td>Jimmy White</td><td>2 May 1962</td><td>80-81</td></tr><tr><td>Gary Wilkinson</td><td>7 April 1966</td><td>87-88</td></tr><tr><td>Mark J. Williams</td><td>21 March 1975</td><td>92-93</td></tr><tr><td>Rex Williams</td><td>20 July 1933</td><td>51-52</td></tr><tr><td>Cliff Wilson</td><td>10 May 1934</td><td>79-80</td></tr></table>

[hegeland]

Ding Junhui 1 April 1987 01-02

I think Ding Junhui was awarded a "wild card" for the 2003-2004 season and turned pro in September 2003.

[Semih_Sayginer]

<b>thank you very much Statsy.

appreciated!</b> :cool: :)


* means the activity that season was the "Pro Ticket" qualifying system for the second season later:

<table border=1><tr><td>Player</td><td>Date of Birth</td><td>Frist season</td></tr><tr><td>Nigel Bond</td><td>15 November 1965</td><td>87-88*</td></tr><tr><td>Ali Carter</td><td>25 July 1979</td><td>96-97</td></tr><tr><td>Bob Chaperon</td><td>18 May 1958</td><td>83-84</td></tr><tr><td>Eddie Charlton</td><td>31 October 1929</td><td>67-68</td></tr><tr><td>Martin Clark</td><td>27 October 1968</td><td>85-86</td></tr><tr><td>Dominic Dale</td><td>29 December 1971</td><td>92-93</td></tr><tr><td>Fred Davis</td><td>14 August 1913</td><td>36-37</td></tr><tr><td>Steve Davis</td><td>22 August 1957</td><td>78-79</td></tr><tr><td>Ken Doherty</td><td>17 September 1969</td><td>87-88*</td></tr><tr><td>Graeme Dott</td><td>12 May 1977</td><td>94-95</td></tr><tr><td>Tony Drago</td><td>22 September 1965</td><td>85-86</td></tr><tr><td>John Dunning</td><td>18 April 1927</td><td>71-72</td></tr><tr><td>Peter Ebdon</td><td>27 August 1970</td><td>91-92</td></tr><tr><td>Neal Foulds</td><td>13 July 1963</td><td>83-84</td></tr><tr><td>Peter Francisco</td><td>14 February 1962</td><td>84-85</td></tr><tr><td>Silvino Francisco</td><td>3 May 1946</td><td>78-79</td></tr><tr><td>Marco Fu</td><td>8 January 1978</td><td>97-98</td></tr><tr><td>David Gray</td><td>9 February 1979</td><td>95-96</td></tr><tr><td>Terry Griffiths</td><td>16 October 1947</td><td>78-79</td></tr><tr><td>Mike Hallett</td><td>6 July 1959</td><td>79-80</td></tr><tr><td>Anthony Hamilton</td><td>29 June 1971</td><td>91-92</td></tr><tr><td>Quinten Hann</td><td>4 June 1977</td><td>95-96</td></tr><tr><td>Dave Harold</td><td>9 December 1966</td><td>87-88</td></tr><tr><td>Barry Hawkins</td><td>23 April 1979</td><td>96-97</td></tr><tr><td>Stephen Hendry</td><td>13 January 1969</td><td>85-86</td></tr><tr><td>Alex Higgins</td><td>18 March 1949</td><td>71-72</td></tr><tr><td>John Higgins</td><td>18 May 1975</td><td>92-93</td></tr><tr><td>Paul Hunter</td><td>14 October 1978</td><td>95-96</td></tr><tr><td>Steve James</td><td>2 May 1961</td><td>86-87</td></tr><tr><td>Joe Johnson</td><td>29 July 1952</td><td>79-80</td></tr><tr><td>Tony Jones</td><td>15 April 1960</td><td>83-84</td></tr><tr><td>Ding Junhui</td><td>1 April 1987</td><td>01-02</td></tr><tr><td>Mark King</td><td>28 March 1974</td><td>91-92</td></tr><tr><td>Tony Knowles</td><td>13 June 1955</td><td>78-79</td></tr><tr><td>Stephen Lee</td><td>12 October 1974</td><td>92-93</td></tr><tr><td>Stephen Maguire</td><td>13 March 1981</td><td>97-98</td></tr><tr><td>Perrie Mans</td><td>14 October 1940</td><td>70-71</td></tr><tr><td>Ian McCulloch</td><td>28 July 1971</td><td>92-93</td></tr><tr><td>Alan McManus</td><td>21 January 1971</td><td>88-89*</td></tr><tr><td>Jim Meadowcroft</td><td>15 December 1946</td><td>72-73</td></tr><tr><td>Tony Meo</td><td>4 October 1959</td><td>78-79</td></tr><tr><td>Graham Miles</td><td>11 May 1941</td><td>71-72</td></tr><tr><td>Darren Morgan</td><td>3 May 1966</td><td>85-86*</td></tr><tr><td>Doug Mountjoy</td><td>8 June 1942</td><td>76-77</td></tr><tr><td>Shaun Murphy</td><td>10 August 1982</td><td>97-98</td></tr><tr><td>Fergal O'Brien</td><td>8 March 1972</td><td>91-92</td></tr><tr><td>Ronnie O'Sullivan</td><td>5 December 1975</td><td>92-93</td></tr><tr><td>Gary Owen</td><td></td><td>68-69</td></tr><tr><td>John Parrott</td><td>11 May 1964</td><td>83-84</td></tr><tr><td>Joe Perry</td><td>13 August 1975</td><td>92-93</td></tr><tr><td>John Pulman</td><td>12 December 1923</td><td>46-47</td></tr><tr><td>Ray Reardon</td><td>8 October 1932</td><td>68-69</td></tr><tr><td>Dean Reynolds</td><td>11 January 1963</td><td>81-82</td></tr><tr><td>Neil Robertson</td><td>11 February 1982</td><td>97-98</td></tr><tr><td>Alain Robidoux</td><td>25 July 1960</td><td>87-88</td></tr><tr><td>David Roe</td><td>11 September 1965</td><td>86-87</td></tr><tr><td>Chris Small</td><td>26 September 1973</td><td>91-92</td></tr><tr><td>John Spencer</td><td>18 September 1935</td><td>68-69</td></tr><tr><td>Kirk Stevens</td><td>17 August 1958</td><td>78-79</td></tr><tr><td>Matthew Stevens</td><td>11 September 1977</td><td>94-95</td></tr><tr><td>Joe Swail</td><td>29 August 1969</td><td>88-89*</td></tr><tr><td>David Taylor</td><td>29 July 1943</td><td>69-70</td></tr><tr><td>Dennis Taylor</td><td>19 January 1949</td><td>72-73</td></tr><tr><td>Cliff Thorburn</td><td>16 January 1948</td><td>72-73</td></tr><tr><td>Willie Thorne</td><td>4 March 1954</td><td>74-75</td></tr><tr><td>John Virgo</td><td>3 April 1946</td><td>72-73</td></tr><tr><td>James Wattana</td><td>17 January 1970</td><td>87-88*</td></tr><tr><td>Bill Werbeniuk</td><td>14 January 1947</td><td>73-74</td></tr><tr><td>Jimmy White</td><td>2 May 1962</td><td>80-81</td></tr><tr><td>Gary Wilkinson</td><td>7 April 1966</td><td>87-88</td></tr><tr><td>Mark J. Williams</td><td>21 March 1975</td><td>92-93</td></tr><tr><td>Rex Williams</td><td>20 July 1933</td><td>51-52</td></tr><tr><td>Cliff Wilson</td><td>10 May 1934</td><td>79-80</td></tr></table>

[Obligation]

Please Statman, enlighten me -- what does frist mean? :)

[Semih_Sayginer]

Please Statman, enlighten me -- what does frist mean? :)

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=frist

[100-uper]

Gary Owen was born 14th March 1930.;)

[The Statman]

I think Ding Junhui was awarded a "wild card" for the 2003-2004 season and turned pro in September 2003.He had a wildcard for the China Open in 2001-02; in 2003-04 he played in two EASB Open Tour matches (one of which he conceded a walkover), and you're right, his first 'real' pro action was in 2003-04.

All I did was pick up the CueSport book, and type it up in about 15 minutes! (hence words like frist!).

[Obligation]

Thank you Semih ;)

[Cyril]

In the early days, I think I am correct to say that players were deemed "professionals" from when they first accepted money for playing an engagement/match. This is why Fred Davis, for instance claimed to have turned pro in 1929 and earlier, Willie Smith, in 1901, as a sixteen year old. Eddie Charlton and Perrie Mans both turned pro in the early 60's, yet I doubt they were actual members of a professional governing at that time, hence, the common referal to Messrs Reardon, Spencer and Owen as being the first professional recruits, in 1968, since Rex Williams (I think) in the 50's. Another interesting one, is Freddie van Rensburg, who challenged Pulman for the professional world title in 1965. Someone tell me when his pro career spanned from?

[100-uper]

In the early days, I think I am correct to say that players were deemed "professionals" from when they first accepted money for playing an engagement/match. This is why Fred Davis, for instance claimed to have turned pro in 1929 and earlier, Willie Smith, in 1901, as a sixteen year old.
Both Fred and Joe Davis worked in their father's billiard halls from an early age, however nobody could be declared "professional" until they were sixteen, which is why this age is given. Willie Smith was still an amateur when he famously beat George Gray in September 1911 and turned professional shortly afterwards, capitalising on the national publicity he received. Although in later life he claims that he was forced to turn professional for being paid travel expense of 2/6d for a exhibition at Middlesbrough, this is another of his apparently deliberate distortion of the facts (like the cue snapping incident against Walter Lindrum) which I assume he threw in to make his anecdotes more interesting.

[Cyril]

What, his beloved "pit prop"? Numerous books on the game say it was broken by the Melbourne (or was it Sydney?) betting fraternity. What makes you say this was untrue?

Going slightly off topic, do you you happen to know if Smith ever made a century break at snooker, in public? I believe he was stuck on a highest of 94 as late as 1940.

Another one for you. Do you happen to know the first names of C.W.Reid (played in 1939 championships) and H.F.Francis (1947,48,49)?

[100-uper]

Check out my article on http://www.eaba.co.uk/articles/walterLindrum/walterLindrumProfile.html under "The Decider" which is the account Smith himself gave to the Manchester Evening Chronicle shortly after his return from Australia. I know exactly how that sort of damage occurs to a cue because I have done the same thing myself! It was decades later that the Australian mafia make an appearance in his story.

I have never seen a report of Smith making a snooker century, or at least I haven't made a note of it if I have, so I can't advise on that one. Nor much help on your names either, I have only ever seen Francis referred to as "H. F." and I haven't come across "C. W. Reid" at all.

[Cyril]

Ah, now I know who I'm talking too. It's a pleasure to talk to such a knowledgable man.

Tell me, do you know if any records exist giving World Championship frame scores/breaks from say, pre-1969. I have most of those after that from copies of SS and B&S. It would be great if one day, all the Championships could be documented in the same detail as The Statman has done for the Crucible years.

[100-uper]

I don't know of anyone who has done this, unless they are in one of Clive Everton's books. I have some details of the early championship matches (pre-war) but haven't bothered thereafter, although it shouldn't be too difficult to put the stats together. I know there was a period when professional snooker wasn't well reported in the Billiard Player, but the frame scores were usually reported daily in The Times, of which I have access to a full run. If there are any particular years that are of interest to you I might be able to dig them out, but I wouldn't like to do 1926-68!

[Cyril]

Dont want you to go out of your way. Be nice to know of all championship centuries but this would involve going through the whole lot. Do you have frame scores and high breaks from the '46 Davis - Lindrum world final?

[Semih_Sayginer]

excellent reading. (as always cyril) [and you too 100]

thanks for all the replies...

[Robert602]

Agreed, all interesting stuff.

[Obligation]

When is the history of snooker not interesting!!

[Semih_Sayginer]

When is the history of snooker not interesting!!


spose it depends whos telling the story...

[The Statman]

I don't know of anyone who has done this, unless they are in one of Clive Everton's books. I have some details of the early championship matches (pre-war) but haven't bothered thereafter, although it shouldn't be too difficult to put the stats together. I know there was a period when professional snooker wasn't well reported in the Billiard Player, but the frame scores were usually reported daily in The Times, of which I have access to a full run. If there are any particular years that are of interest to you I might be able to dig them out, but I wouldn't like to do 1926-68!I also have access to the Times, and did what I could for the 1927 championship.

It is interesting to note that the first match, between Melbourne Inman and Tom Newman, consisted of 15 frames, either one or two being played at the end of each evening's session of their billiards match, between November 29 and mid-December 1926.

Further, the billiards match was played, experimentally, on a table with 3¼-inch pockets, ¼ inch narrower than standard.

I have found lots of frame scores, but not all, even for this match. Inman won the first frame 97–23.

Even one of the finals from the 20s/early 30s had frame scores for some sessions but not for others. One I recall was a 35-framer, and there were no scores for the session in which Joe Davis achieved an unassailable lead. So we know only that he was, say, 16-10 ahead at the start and ended 18-12. We thus do not know at what point he won the all-important eithteenth frame.

The offical records, of course, give the final score at the end of the following session, so on paper he won 20-15, 19-16 or whatever.

[Obligation]

Statman, could you collect all your stats on a computer database, and I'll buy them all?

(I'll send the memory stick)

Or are they 'un-electronic' ?

[Obligation]

I am aware that my memory stick will need to be more like a 250GB external hard drive.







(Just Kidding)

[100-uper]

Do you have frame scores and high breaks from the '46 Davis - Lindrum world final?
As you are no doubt aware, the final was held from 6th-18th May 1946 at the Royal Horticultural Hall, Vincent Square, Westminster SW1. Covering 12 sessions and 145 frames it was the longest championship match held to that date. The Times reported: "So popular has the game become that although the match was played in a hall able to accommodate 1,250 people, many enthusiasts were still unable to see the play." Davis made his 200th snooker century during this match (133, a championship record) and then broke this record with 136 on Saturday 11th May. Davis, who won by 78 frames to 67, made a total six century breaks during the two weeks' play: 104, 133, 136, 122, 116 and 107. Lindrum's highest break was 86, made in one of the "dead" frames on the final day. Incidentally, our friend Willie Smith was on the (radio) commentary team!

Frame scores (Davis first): Mon 6th: 55-54, 28-92, 98-29, 94-60, 82-34, 54-62, 33-73, 82-34, 71-17, 50-59, 61-49, 55-72 (Closing Scores 7-5 to Davis); Tues 7th: 60-71, 0-125, 42-78, 79-29, 62-36, 118-11, 83-27, 91-31, 70-71, 89-19, 62-47, 37-94 (Closing Scores 14-10 to Davis); Wed 8th: 59-31, 56-61, 114(104)-15, 41-77, 57-66, 52-55, 48-80, 86-15, 65-39, 44-92, 61-62, 67-33 (Closing Scores 19-17 to Davis); Thur 9th: 80-27, 69-40, 37-70, 87-49, 108-25, 58-69, 134(133)-4, 108-25, 35-92, 53-72, 76-31, 38-71 (Closing Scores 23-19 to Davis); Fri 10th: 51-77, 72-35, 22-110, 105-25, 50-78, 23-89, 114-0, 104-36, 96-33, 103-26, 25-73, 52-74. (Closing Scores 32-28 to Davis); Sat 11th: No frame scores. Davis made break of 136. (Closing Scores 39-33 to Davis) Mon 13th: No first session scores. Evening: 103-8, 61-47, 47-72, 68-51, 53-63, 21-103 (Closing Scores 45-39 to Davis); Tue 14th: 96-23, 13-103, 108-26, 79-45, 26-65, 43-89, 63-44, 103-48, 36-83, 59-69, 103-24, 40-87 (Closing Scores 51-45 to Davis); Wed 15th: 69-50, 48-55, 98-36, 22-121, 82-47, 80-44, 87-35, 64-38, 28093, 54-72, 44-72, 44-73, 51-64 (Closing Scores 57-51 to Davis); Thur 16th: 77-33, 75-21, 47-56, 82-37, 82-58, 70-50. No scores for the evening session. (Closing scores 65-55 to Davis); Fri 17th: 55-84, 80-24, 99-31, 35-73, 79-52, 20-93, 67-49, 80-53, 6-93, 123(123)-0, 42-87, 28-97. (Closing scores 71-61 to Davis); Sat 18th: 86-54, 25-105, 91-27, 20-77, 44-67, 71-59, 145-0, 99-15, 85,29, 47-55, 96-23, 26-109, 48-54. (Final scores 78-67 to Davis).

[Cyril]

100-uper, that is excellent - thank you. :)

Interesting how Joe built a nice lead and seemed to nurse it through the last few days, reaching a winning lead at 73-62.

[nardiello]

He had a wildcard for the China Open in 2001-02; in 2003-04 he played in two EASB Open Tour matches (one of which he conceded a walkover), and you're right, his first 'real' pro action was in 2003-04.

All I did was pick up the CueSport book, and type it up in about 15 minutes! (hence words like frist!).


why did ding junhui concede a walkover in EASB Open tour?

he was playing against who in china open 2001-02 and which tournament was he playing before getting a wild card in masters 2004?

[Semih_Sayginer]

(Statman) the table appears to have been cabbaged

??:eek:

[Semih_Sayginer]

(Statman) the table appears to have been cabbaged

??:eek:

all fixed now

thank you to "the fixer" :cool: